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This is the discussion page of Tambayan Philippines, where Filipino contributors and contributors to Philippine-related articles discuss general matters regarding the development of Philippine-related articles as well as broad topics on the Philippines with respect to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. Likewise, this talk page also serves as the regional notice board for Wikipedia concerns regarding the Philippines, enabling other contributors to request input from Filipino Wikipedians.

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September De-stubbing drive

A discussion was made for a month-long September drive, which eventually was accepted. Trying to get as many participants as possible (not sure if this is the right place to announce this). If you are interested in de-stubbing articles and helping out in the drive, you can click here if you're interested. Regards, 🍗TheNuggeteer🍗 11:47, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm in! Hopefully I won't be the only one. D-Flo27 (talk) 11:54, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

The drive is already underway. Feel free to join, plenty of stubs to go around. D-Flo27 (talk) 12:33, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

"born-again" for Evangelical Protestant

Should we be replacing instances of "born-again" in reference to Evangelicals (e.g. "born-again Christian" for Evangelical Protestant, "born-again Christianity" for Evangelical Protestantism)? This is quite the most commonly used term in reference to Evangelical Protestants in PH, but sounds too informal and less precise for an encyclopedia. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 23:16, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Would someone invoke WP:ENGVAR for this? Howard the Duck (talk) 00:32, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I also assumed it was a case of Philippine English. Borgenland (talk) 02:30, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm certainly no authority about this, but I see an assertion in the evangelicalism article saying, "Conversionism, or belief in the necessity of being 'born again,' has been a constant theme of evangelicalism since its beginnings.', supported by a cite with a quote saying, "What does it mean to be evangelical? The simple answer is that evangelical Christianity is the religion of the born again." Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:14, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I'll respond with some familiarity with the subject, although my understanding may be flawed at points. There was a trend in the last three decades of the 20th Century (originating in the 70s and possibly peaking in the late 1980s) for Philippine Evangelicals to avoid denominational labels due to an emphasis on "relationship, not religion." This is also why there are so many nondenominational evangelical chrurches in the Philippines. The result is the preference for the term "born again," which started as a sort of euphemism, but later became so dominant that it's percieved as its own denominational label. But as far as I know, the largest organization of Born Again churches (this is a very loose description, because of the aforementioned tendency towards nondenominationalism and congregational independence) is the Philippine Council of Evangelical Churches. A similar euphemism is "Bible Believing", which refers to any protestants (evangelical, mainline, pentecostal, or whichever) adhering to a strict interpretation of Sola Scriptura. - Batongmalake (talk) 15:49, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Wide-ranging AFD in Philippine venue events

Found this widescale AFD involving two Philippine articles. Inviting interested editors to share their thoughts at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex. Borgenland (talk) 14:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

AFD is a trainwreck, but FWIW, all such articles should be deleted as per nom. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:59, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Serious issues in Bicol

San Jose, Camarines Sur may need major gutting due to tons of copyvio and unencyclopedic, unsourced and outdated content. Borgenland (talk) 15:20, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Largest barangay

Now that Bagong Silang is dead, who’s the next titleholder? Borgenland (talk) 17:56, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

The PSA 2020 Census shows barangay Commonwealth in Quezon City had 213,229 inhabitants, after Barangay 176's population of 261,729. Sanglahi86 (talk) 18:31, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Bagong Silang could have had its own legislative district. Howard the Duck (talk) 21:16, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

How about in terms of land area? Borgenland (talk) 09:28, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it's currently not possible to determine which barangay officially has the largest land area because there is no official source for the land areas of all 40,000+ barangays. —seav (talk) 14:02, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines/Requests

There are some requests here that may violate WP:REDLINK:

• All journals under the "Journals" section. (See WP:NJOURNAL)
• Po (honorific), Opo (honorific), and Oho (honorific) should all be under one article
• All localities under the "Localities" section (See WP:GEOLAND)
• Close the Gap (billboard ad)

Howard the Duck (talk) 23:11, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Agree with the others, but I think Cubao should be an exception for the localities. It's the most well known and most culturally significant of the seven listed ones. Ganmatthew (talk • contribs) 13:36, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Same, though given the attention on Commonwealth seen above, I think its viability is higher. 13:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC) Borgenland (talk) 13:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I have no issue with Cubao (which is actually a collection of barangays), but we should be careful with Imperial Manila bias. Cubao may be the most famous non-LGU place in the Philippines as this is the drop-off point of most probinsyanos when they visit Manila (the other option is Baclaran, which is now being made obsolete by PITX). Howard the Duck (talk) 01:04, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I added most (if not all) of the journal requests, as well as the honorifics. If it indeed violates WP:REDLINK, you may remove it. However, I would suggest leaving the Asian Studies journal since it is commonly used and cited as a reliable source in several articles. I don't know how to call those three honorifics under one article; there is Filipino styles and honorifics but "Po" is included merely as a very short entry in a table. For localities, I see Cubao and Commonwealth in Quezon City as notable. Sanglahi86 (talk) 13:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Po/opo/ho/oho are basically identical words that the Tagalog language takes into multiple forms, like dito/rito. A linguist should know how these are called in the terms of linguistics, and like put in an article named "<term> in Tagalog (language)".

Again, as above in regards to Cubao as Imperial Manila bias, while there are indeed journals outside Metro Manila schools, these are mostly UP Diliman and DLSU ones. These academic journals may be used as WP:RS, but creating articles about these may be a stretch as mainstream media do not cover such journals at all, more so in an in-depth scale. Howard the Duck (talk) 01:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

File overwrites

I dunno what is the most appropriate centralized page on enwiki for discussing files (but not copyright-related). WP:OVERWRITE is essentially a redirect to c:COM:OVERWRITE.

Is Valenzuela400's File:Bulacan State University Bustos Bulacan2.jpg compliant with relevant enwiki guidelines? It is made up of multiple overwritten files of different angles of a same (or similar) building within Bulacan State University. Valenzuela400 has some more local files with the same issue. The user should explain why they made such overwriting of files, if it was just a "honest mistake" on their part (they don't know how to choose which file is most visually-pleasing for enwiki readers), or if it is a sneaky way to host their near-identical images of the same subjects locally on enwiki. More similar files with overwritten media from them: File:Technics turntable1.jpg, File:Santolan Guerrillas and War Veterans monument3.jpg, and File:Reedley International School Pasig4.jpg. Explicit's concern on my Commons talk page shouldn't be ignored, though, but I leave the concern to the other users (due to my personal and real-life matters and problems). JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 09:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

My first assumption would be a misunderstanding of how files work here, treating the page as an album rather than as a single file. I don't know if there is a guideline on this, as it's not something that is expected to happen. CMD (talk) 09:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

 Comment: the user replied in their talk page in connection to this matter. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 10:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Tampering on Joy Bernos

Need extra eyes to look at Joy Bernos. I just warned off an editor who vandalised the article on POV grounds and may have a COI. Borgenland (talk) 16:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Peer review for Pasacao, Camarines

I am a local who has been actively editing our town's article, Pasacao. Please help me analyze which area of the page needs improvement. Thank you! Idaljiu (talk) 17:06, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

I suggest you start with WP:BROCHURE. A common problem in Philippine geography articles is that a lot of them seem to be copypasted from leaflets at the local tourism office. Borgenland (talk) 17:43, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Also to consider: WP:NOTGUIDE. Geographic articles are supposed to be written in encyclopedic tone, not promotional tone. Promotional content is best migrated to Wikivoyage (i.e., wikivoyage:en:Pasacao). JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 21:28, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Misgendering of PBA athletes

Fiddling with athletes these days when I noticed that several players have been misgendered as male in talk pages and included in WikiProject Women's Sport (ex. Eddie Laure, Robert Bolick, Fritz Gaston and Carlo Sharma). Is this the work of an overlooked vandal or a bug? Borgenland (talk) 17:05, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

It was by KiranBOT, a bot, so a bug.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 01:10, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Hariboneagle927 and Borgenland: thank you for pointing out the mistakes. I was provided a list of around 4000 categories. These categories were supposed to contain articles about only women. There might have been an oversight while creating the list itself, or some men's articles might have been added to the incorrect categories. Regarding Carlo Sharmam, and Robert Bolick which are from Category:De La Salle Green Archers basketball players is for men's players, which seems to have been in the list. While Eddie Laure was assistant coach of the UST Golden Tigresses women's varsity basketball team, maybe thats why he is of interest for the women's wikiproject? Fritz Gaston is in the Category:Philippines women's national basketball team coaches. I am willing to rectify/make changes based on suggestions, but I think first we should look for the reason which caused these edits. Maybe @Hmlarson: can help. —usernamekiran (talk) 11:31, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

There had been men who had coached women's sports teams in the Philippines (and probably elsewhere).

Tip for categorization for college sports teams: In the USA, the women's teams almost always have the same team nicknames as the men's teams. For example, the women's basketball team of the University of North Carolina are also the "Tar Heels", just like the men (not "Lady Tar Heels"). There are a very few exceptions. In categorization, the way to distinguish is the word "men's or "women's" in the titles.

In the Philippines, the women's teams are named after the women's counterpart of the male nickname, which is always (no exception) the primary nickname. For example, the men's basketball team of the Far Eastern University are the "Tamaraws", while the women's team are the "Lady Tamaraws". It can be creative, like "Growling Tigers/Tigresses", but mostly the word "Lady" is added, like "Knights/Lady Knights". The 2 exceptions are Ateneo de Manila University and University of the Philippines Diliman, which are like the US teams having the same nickname regardless of sex, so it's always "Blue Eagles" and "Fighting Maroons", respectively. For categorization, the women's teams usually have the word "Lady", while the men's teams do not.

There were a series of WP:RMs about this, and the latest just ended a few days ago. See Talk:University Athletic Association of the Philippines#College sports articles naming; there had been categories that had been renamed as a result.

While men can coach women, men can't play with women (not yet), and women don't play with men (no women are good as men yet to make a team), so the player categories can be straightforward for now. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:39, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

• I have identified following 51 categories that may be non-women. would you folks kindly confirm it?

I can reverse the changes to the articles from that list. I already have the program ready. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:38, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I can only speak for projects involving the Philippines. For now there is certainly that Ateneo men’s, UP men’s and the 2 UAAP men’s are wrongly categorized. Will check the others later. Borgenland (talk) 12:41, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Jeez Category talk:UAAP men's basketball tournaments was tagged as women's sport when the category title itself mentions men. All Adamson, Ateneo, La Salle, FEU, NU, UE and UST categories were also wrongly tagged.

Interestingly, the NCAA (Philippines) teams may not have been affected. I checked Category talk:Letran Knights basketball players and there were no women's sports project link.

Category:Kentucky State Thorobrettes basketball is a women's team; the men's team are the Category:Kentucky State Thorobreds basketball, an example of Philippine-style naming in the USA.

The other categories seem to be sports teams and competitions from other countries and someone else should make a judgment on those. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:47, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Women in Green's October 2024 edit-a-thon

Hello Tambayan Philippines:

WikiProject Women in Green is holding a month-long Good Article Edit-a-thon event in October 2024!

Running from October 1 to 31, 2024, WikiProject Women in Green (WiG) is hosting a Good Article (GA) edit-a-thon event with the theme Around the World in 31 Days! All experience levels welcome. Never worked on a GA project before? We'll teach you how to get started. Or maybe you're an old hand at GAs – we'd love to have you involved! Participants are invited to work on nominating and/or reviewing GA submissions related to women and women's works (e.g., books, films) during the event period. We hope to collectively cover article subjects from at least 31 countries (or broader international articles) by month's end. GA resources and one-on-one support will be provided by experienced GA editors, and participants will have the opportunity to earn a special WiG barnstar for their efforts.

We hope to see you there!

Grnrchst (talk) 12:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

WVSU

How do you fix the ridiculous italicization of West Visayas State University in its article title? Borgenland (talk) 16:02, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

It appeared following this edit, though the itals don't show in the title of the diff. See boxed info at the top of {{infobox newspaper}} for instructions about how to prevent it. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 22:56, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

 Fixed --Bluemask (talk) 02:21, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Sulu province out of BARMM

As most of you probably already know, the Supreme Court recently declared that Sulu province is not part of Bangsamoro. There has been a lot of editing to reflect this news, notably by Hariboneagle927 (example edit), but I feel that editing articles to put Sulu inside Zamboanga Peninsula is very premature. Moving Sulu to Region IX is logical (after all, the Sulu Archipelago was originally part of Western Mindanao), but I can't find any reliable source that says that Sulu is to officially be considered part of Region IX apart from this Comelec intention. Note that the Comelec is not the authority in defining administrative regions. In my opinion, I think the correct way to represent this limbo situation now is to still include Sulu in Bangsamoro-related lists but with copious footnotes about the SC decision. This should be somewhat similar to how we treat HUCs with their mother provinces. —seav (talk) 01:08, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

The joining to Region IX is also implied in this opinion piece by Samira Gutoc. It makes sense to keep Sulu in some Bangsamoro lists as that is where any recent statistical work etc. will have placed it, although I expect this will be shifted over time, and it could also be included in Region IX lists with a similar footnote. This source reports COMELEC is reflecting the supreme court decision, although agree better sources are needed. CMD (talk) 03:46, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Let's just wait for announcements on where Sulu will be grouped with. Most likely Zamboanga Peninsula, or even Soccsksargen, or even a region to its self.

I'd support removing Sulu from Bangsamoro lists and just leave the region as blank or "unassigned". Howard the Duck (talk) 04:07, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I have reverted the recent changes back to Sulu being treated as a "limbo province". The Manila Times source was the clearest which mentions the COMELEC intends the province to be regrouped with Region 9 in time of the 2025 elections. The GMA Regional TV source worded it in a way that the reallocation has already happened. So again I have reverted changes (including the maps) that treat Sulu as a Zamboanga Peninsula province in light of the new citation and this very discussion. Hariboneagle927 (talk) 05:11, 13 September 2024 (UTC)