Talk:State of Palestine
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Picture in the "Art, Music, and Clothing" Section
[edit]Under the 'Art, music, and clothing' Section there is a picture of 'Palestinian children in their traditional dress'. The picture itself was taken in London (on Oct. 9th 2023), and it is not clear this has anything to do with 'traditional Palestinian clothing'. The picture does contain a political message which is irrelevant to the information discussed in the section, and in addition contains a short manifesto in text when opened "There are more than two million people living there, and this brutal form of collective punishment is clearly a war crime which threatens the lives of all of them...". I suggest deleting this picture or finding a more suitable image which is relevant to the information discussed.— Preceding unsigned comment added by an unspecified IP address
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 July 2024
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- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 14:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Add a clickable song thingy where you can play the national anthem </div Depotadore (talk) 11:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'd agree that the anthem audio should be added to the country's infobox, similar to other states. We already explicitly state that it's the anthem, with sources backing it up. I don't see why a clickable audio file can't be added to the infobox here. AG202 (talk) 16:49, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
- Add a clickable song thingy where you can play the national anthem
Done PianoDan (talk) 17:06, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
Early history
[edit]why there's no early history section? at least a brief about non-arab/muslim history and a detailed paragraph about Muslim/Arab history of the region of Palestine?? 213.139.45.143 (talk) 12:48, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- This is about the state, to the region. Slatersteven (talk) 12:50, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- Then why does Israel have. Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 20:05, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
- I have added an excerpt from History of Palestine to the beginning of the history section, which runs through various periods up to the Ottoman era. This edit was modeled after the Israel article. Evaporation123 (talk) 05:58, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
- Its not like Israel article. In Israel, every section before modern history is in fair size. I too did many edits and made Palestine article too lengthy. I think every section should be of fair size in this article like this:
- Pre-history:
- Ancient history
- Classical history (mostly Christian)
- Middle Ages (mostly Muslims)
- Modern (final years of of Ottoman rule to end of British mandate
- War and occupation (from 1947 war to 1999)
- 21st century: 2000 to present
- Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 17:51, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- If you want to go ahead with putting that in, fine by me. Evaporation123 (talk) 18:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- Alright ... Sorry I replied late since I'm in vacation and laptop is not available.... I will continue my work once I'm back . Thank you Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 14:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- If you want to go ahead with putting that in, fine by me. Evaporation123 (talk) 18:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- Its not like Israel article. In Israel, every section before modern history is in fair size. I too did many edits and made Palestine article too lengthy. I think every section should be of fair size in this article like this:
- I have added an excerpt from History of Palestine to the beginning of the history section, which runs through various periods up to the Ottoman era. This edit was modeled after the Israel article. Evaporation123 (talk) 05:58, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
- Then why does Israel have. Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 20:05, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
Lede problems
[edit]@Kharbaan Ghaltaan: Problems with the new lede:
1- opening paragraph should not detail religion and ethnicities, nor should the lede.
2- Too many mention of "conquests," it should just be said that this ruled after this, etc.
3- The modern Palestinian state (which doesn't exist beyond the PA, which can be described to have municipal powers at best) does not yet exist; and certainly does not exist in 1948.
4- (Christian and Muslims) is redundant
5- "rejected by the Arabs." should be replaced with "the plan was never implemented."
6- Calling the Fatah-Hamas conflict a "civil war" is an overstretch. Makeandtoss (talk) 19:00, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
- Regarding 1st point, look at Iraq, Lebanon and Syria, they're too like that. Because Palestine, along with these countries are similar, since they're located in the Fertile Crescent. I didn't understand the 3rd point. Pls explain or tell me what kind of sentence will be suitable. Pls don't ignore it and reply as possible Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 20:04, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
- They should be change as well since MOS:OPEN says the opening paragraph should be kept as general as possible.
- There is no Palestinian state on the ground, but a Palestinian Authority. There are recognitions of the existence of the right for such a state, but that is not a state on the ground. Also PA was established in 1993. Prior to that there was no Palestinian body in the occupied territories. This sentence can just be removed "The modern Palestinian state have been in conflict since 1948, which was triggered during the British rule." Makeandtoss (talk) 20:12, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
- Looks actually good now. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:13, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
History
[edit]@Slatersteven why there's no early history section? at least a brief about non-arab/muslim history and a detailed paragraph about Muslim/Arab history of the region of Palestine?? Kharbaan Ghaltaan (talk) 09:42, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- There is no "real history" of the state of Palestine, its is a modern invention, There may be a justification for a brief one of two lines run down and a link to Palestine (region). Slatersteven (talk) 09:47, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Herodotus would disagree. In The Histories Herodotus mentions Palestinians and Palestine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.87.143.164 (talk) 10:23, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Do RS say that they are the same entities? Slatersteven (talk) 10:28, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Herodotus would disagree. In The Histories Herodotus mentions Palestinians and Palestine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.87.143.164 (talk) 10:23, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- As if the "secular" state of Israel is an ancient invention. All modern-nation states are modern inventions; there should definitely be a history section related to the history of the Palestinian territories. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:14, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, which is why many such articles do not have huge ancient history section. Slatersteven (talk) 10:30, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Israel does have a large ancient history section, so large that is obscures the 3,000 modern history of the Palestine region also now known as the territory of the Israeli state. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:47, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- And two wrongs do not make a right (see below). Slatersteven (talk) 10:48, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- I did not claim that; that's why I have been promoting the discussion of the history of the Palestinian territories here, and the history of the Palestine region at Israel. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:49, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- And two wrongs do not make a right (see below). Slatersteven (talk) 10:48, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Israel does have a large ancient history section, so large that is obscures the 3,000 modern history of the Palestine region also now known as the territory of the Israeli state. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:47, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, which is why many such articles do not have huge ancient history section. Slatersteven (talk) 10:30, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
The way IP history is dealt with is POV driven, I suspect. There is a History of Palestine article (which says at top "This article is about the history of the region. For the state, see History of the State of Palestine), so then there is History of Israel (which says at top "the history of the State of Israel and its historical background. For pre-modern Jewish history in the region, see History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel). So there is an article about Israel with a very large History in it and now we have a Palestine article (redirects here) and so we must have a very large history in that as well. And so on. The "top" articles should be the History of.. and summary style implemented elsewhere, methinks. No? (History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel and History of ancient Israel and Judah...hmmm) Selfstudier (talk) 10:39, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Reading your comment I came up with an idea that I do not fully support yet but I think is interesting (thinking out loud). Maybe the best solution to this unique issue is that any history of State of Palestine and Israel before 1882 is kept at the History of Palestine (as a region) article. The downside would be that both articles would not contain any pre-1882 history. Or maybe it could as a small summarizing section that is identical in both articles. [History of Israel and Judah would reorganized as a subset of the History of Palestine; History of the Jews and Judaism would be moved to "in Palestine" and reorganized as a subset of the History of Palestine] Makeandtoss (talk) 10:51, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- We can't discuss what to do on other articles here, maybe at the NPOV notice board or on the village pump, but not here. Slatersteven (talk) 10:55, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, it affects here, why the ever expanding "history" keeps getting added everywhere, including now here, because of a perceived equivalency with Israel article. We have had the "why is there all this history here" debate at the Israel article, to no avail and the same thing will occur here.
- I am tempted to try and sort it out at IsPal collaboration but think it might well turn into the usual. I think we should first try and sort out the Palestinian/Palestine side of things, do it correctly and leave the Jews/Israel people to sort out their own mess. Selfstudier (talk) 11:05, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
- We can't discuss what to do on other articles here, maybe at the NPOV notice board or on the village pump, but not here. Slatersteven (talk) 10:55, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
Citation needed
[edit]Hi,
The lead sentence asserts that Palestine is a country, but the footnote has the following error: “The named reference :17 was invoked but never defined.” Suggest either supplying a substantiating citation, or otherwise replacing it with a Citation Needed template —Arrandale Westmere (talk) 04:46, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Better reference needed for Palestinian Statehood
[edit]The reference used to validate Palestinian Statehood (ref #19) needs to be changed because it states the exact opposite:
From "United Nations Common Country Analysis for the Occupied Palestinian Territory" states:
"The text, designations, and presentations of materials in this publication, including their respective citations, maps, and bibliography, do NOT imply the expression of ANY OPINION WHATSOEVER OR ANY OFFICIAL POSITION BY THE UNITED NATIONS concerning the legal status of any country, territory, city, or area, or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers or boundaries." Meson81-wiki (talk) 19:35, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
- Removed ref. We don't need a ref for the statehood (or country, same thing, although I prefer state myself. I guess saying the State of Palestine is a state is redundant tho). Selfstudier (talk) 19:43, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2024
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Please undo this edit, which added a clearly inappropriate coma [sic]. Thanks. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 14:51, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
- Done – macaddct1984 (talk | contribs) 15:12, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
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