Talk:African Americans

Black American over African American

I have been reading that "Black American" is taking precedence as the newest, best preferred term over "African American." Is either acceptable in most articles right now? Iljhgtn (talk) 18:56, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, is it appropriate to capitalize the "B" in "Black Americans" or is it "black Americans"? Iljhgtn (talk) 20:51, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

It is correct to capitalize the B in Blacks, as in L for Latinos and A for Asians. However is its NOT correct to do the same for w in whites. Associated Press and New York Times have determined that "white doesn’t represent a shared culture and history in the way Black does." (Personally I see this as regressive in implying all Black cultures are similar, when in reality they are quite varied.) The underlying message however is that whites are the only racial group not befitting a capital letter.

https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-cultures-race-and-ethnicity-us-news-ap-top-news-7e36c00c5af0436abc09e051261fff1f 107.192.19.201 (talk) 21:03, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

We follow MOS:RACECAPS. It's "Black and White" or "black and white". Rsk6400 (talk) 09:07, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

The most recent move discussion happened last march (link), and it ended in consensus against such a move. I'd recommend researching whether things have changed when it comes to RS usage of the terms. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:34, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

That was not a very thoroughly responded to RfC. Would be logical to have another. Iljhgtn (talk) 18:31, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

At the very least we can say that Black American should be prioritized over Afro-American right? Google searching "Afro Americans"/"Afro-Americans" gives 1.5 million results while "Black Americans" gives around 24.6 million. (Both are searched with quotation marks included) Gabecube45 (talk) 20:02, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Support for "Black American" as the recommended preferred usage instead of "Afro", "Afro-" or "African American". Black American is the best, most neutral, and widely used term. Iljhgtn (talk) 15:40, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose: On Google books, "Black African" brings up 2,080,000 results [1], whilst "African American" brings up 23,100,000 results [2].I don't know of anyone who uses the old fashioned term "Afro American". To use it as an example is most inappropriate.Tamsier (talk) 16:12, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

African American flag in lead infobox

Hello @Rsk6400,

You reverted my edit which placed the Black American Heritage Flag in the lead infobox, saying that the flag is not universally accepted. Would you have any sources to back up your claim?

I can't find anything saying the flag is universally accepted as well, though I did get flooded with a lot of results on Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/discover/black-american-heritage-flag

There have also been at least two instances, that made the news, where the flag was incorporated into fashion: https://girlsunited.essence.com/article/saweetie-met-gala-filipino-black-culture/ and https://www.milwaukeemag.com/this-milwaukee-native-won-the-united-states-of-america-ms-pageant/ Evaporation123 (talk) 03:10, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

We need sources for claims, not for the absence of claims. That's why I think to add the flag, you'd need good sources that positively say that the Black American Heritage Flag is universally accepted as representing the group of African Americans. Tiktok videos or fashion articles are not considered reliable sources. You can find more about reliable sources at WP:RS. Rsk6400 (talk) 08:03, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

The flag was designed by an artist who self published (BookBaby) as cited in the flag's article without page number. Many of the article's refs are not reliable and from social media. Protesting here may also lead other editors to that article and nominate it for deletion as potential WP:OR.Tamsier (talk) 16:22, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Sgt. Samuel Smith, African American soldier in Union uniform with wife and two daughters.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for February 1, 2025. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2025-02-01. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you!  — Amakuru (talk) 12:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

African Americans, also known as Afro-Americans or Black Americans, are an ethnic group consisting of Americans with partial or total ancestry from any of the Black racial groups of Africa. African Americans constitute the third largest racial or ethnic group in the U.S. after White Americans and Hispanic and Latino Americans. Most African Americans are descendants of enslaved people, having West African and coastal Central African ancestry, with varying amounts of Western European and Native American ancestry. This ambrotype depicts African American Union soldier Sgt. Samuel Smith, of the 119th United States Colored Troops, with his family in c. 1863–65.

Ambrotype credit: unattributed photographer

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Terminology / General — Frequency of Use prior to 1980

The term African American, popularized by Jesse Jackson in the 1980s, although it was in regular use as far back for the ethnic group in the 18th and 19th centuries, for example, in post-emancipation holidays and conferences,

We could improve the WP:WEIGHT of the references to "african american" use prior to 1980. There are practically zero references in books prior to 1980

We have some good citations here including the 1800s newspaper, but in all there might be half a dozen references recorded prior to Jessee Jackson inventing the term.

African american was not in regular use. Negro was in regular use, and "african american" was an extremely rare exception until 1980.

Tonymetz 💬 21:24, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

"regular use" was not supported by the text, and I've adjusted the article text accordingly. Good catch. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 23:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 May 2024

17:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)188.10.18.131 (talk)

Most African Americans are descendants of enslaved people within the boundaries of the present United States. While some Black immigrants or their children may also come to identify as African American, the majority of first-generation immigrants do not, preferring to identify with their nation of origin. Most African Americans are of West African and coastal Central African ancestry, with varying amounts of Western Europe.

188.10.18.131 (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)<ref>https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/decennial-census-measurement-of-race-and-ethnicity-across-the-decades-1790-2020.html <ref> 188.10.18.131 (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. GrayStorm^{(converse|look at what i do)} 18:00, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Obama once again

@Natemup: Please stop edit warring ! If you see that another editor disagrees, you should not simply restore your edit, but start a discussion here, see WP:BRD. Not everything that is true or sourced is also relevant, see WP:ONUS. Now, please explain why you think that Obama's parents and Kamala Harris are important enough to be mentioned in a lead section that doesn't mention giants like Douglass, King, Tubman, Jacobs, DuBois, .... I'd also like to know some good sources for your idea that only descendants of slavery are "conventional" African Americans. It sounds a bit like the idea that a person is defined by their great-great-great-grandparents. Rsk6400 (talk) 19:11, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Firstly, I don't have that idea and it isn't mentioned in my edits today. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Secondly, the lede abruptly mentioned Obama after multiple paragraphs that themselves minimized the importance of immigrants in the definition of "African American". It implied that Obama fits within that framework; he does not. I have actually added a new paragraph that actually reflects the article's content and the sources, noting that immigration is important to the identity, as seen in recent statistics and the fact that Obama (and Harris), second-generation immigrants, are the first two African Americans in the White House. natemup (talk) 19:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree with natemup that the lead minimizes immigrant African-Americans, but I don't think it's best resolved by including parentage details for Obama and Harris. I've moved that info to the body, where it was previously not presented at all. Something I'd love to do if I had the time: survey some high-quality sources for basic definitions of "African-American". My suspicion is that the two sources we're currently citing for "generally denotes descendants of Africans enslaved in the United States"—both of which are very high quality, if a bit dated—are cherry picked. Anecdotally, usage of the term tends to be dominated by the US Census definition, which is much more expansive. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:58, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

As explained, I added an entire paragraph that includes statistics about the influence of immigration on the African-American community. It concludes with the fact that the two most powerful African Americans in history are themselves second-generation immigrants. Removing this information from the lede and putting it in the body, where it already is present, doesn't really make any sense. natemup (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The information is not present in the body, which mentions neither Obama's nor Harris's mother. The part you added about influence of immigration needs could be appended to the end of the preceding paragraph, as it slots well into the chronology. I'm not sure why you wouldn't follow BRD on this, especially since two editors have now reverted it. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:07, 5 July 2024 (UTC)