Talk:Iran–Iraq War

Estimates of total deaths and casualties

Hi @Cinderella157. "Casualties and losses" sub-section of the infobox is quite confusing. There is no row on "total deaths" in the infobox.

According to Britannica Encyclopaedia and History.com, the total number of deaths that occurred as a result of this war is approximately 500,000. Dilip Hiro wrote in his book "The Longest War: The Iran–Iraq Military Conflict" (which is referenced in the "military dead" columns in the "Casualties and losses" sub-section of the infobox):

"Conservative Western estimates put the total number of war dead at 367,000 - Iran accounting for 262,000 and Iraq 105,000. With more than 700,000 injured, the total casualties were put at over one million."

I couldnt verify information from the other sources, but probably there is a heavy over-estimation in the "Military dead" columns. It appears as if the contents are not summarized properly in the infobox. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 18:51, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

• I have deleted the range at the bottom of the box because, as you say, it fails verification. There is a lot of detail in the casualties (and strengths) in drop-downs that do not appear collapsed on mobile devices. A lot of this "detail" is inappropriate for an infobox and should be moved from the box. The amount of detail on casualties in particular suggests that the figures are nuanced and this is something for which an infobox is unsuitable. If the casualties section in the body is not consistent with detail in the infobox, this needs to be harmonised. I might have a bit too much on my plate ATM but I would support objective editing along these lines. Cinderella157 (talk) 22:28, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Infobox Belligerents' Supporters/Suppliers

In other infoboxes for war articles, there is usually a list of nations which supported each side. Why is this missing? These are countries which supply weapons, logistical support, raw materials, capital, and other resources without deploying its own troops to join the fight. Could someone add this? The main players can be found in the main text of the article. Thank you.66.91.36.8 (talk) 06:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

USE of "supported by" has been deprecated and will be removed from other articles with time. Cinderella157 (talk) 07:37, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Arms suppliers in infobox

Skitash, "arm suppliers" in the infobox is just "supported by" by anoher name. Adding such information to the infobox is deprecated - see Template: Infobox military conflict where a link is provided to the associated RfC. While not totally prohibited, such inclusion requires a strong affirmative consensus (ie an RfC). See the close of the linked RfC for details. No such consensus exists for the material you would add. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:47, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

"Supported by" is broad and can encompass various forms of support, including political backing, military assistance, advisory roles, or arms suppliers. This broadness was a key reason editors decided to omit the use of "supported by" on the infobox RfC. In contrast, "Major arms suppliers" is more specific, clearly indicating to readers the type of support being referred to. Moreover, this has been present in the article consistently until it was removed in October without consensus here. Are you suggesting that we need to initiate RfCs for individual articles? Skitash (talk) 10:37, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

That is what the close says. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:35, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Solution to Article Length

Hello! This article most certainly qualifies under WP:SPLIT to be split as it is well over 25,000 words. Here are a couple solutions that might help:

• Split the "Background" section into its own article
• Split the "Aftermath" section into its own article (and include the "Legacy and Memory" section).
• Merge "Iran and Iraq's Modern Relationship" into Iran–Iraq relations.

Any consensus would be great. Garsh (talk) 01:57, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

USS Stark Incident

Currently the section for this notes that an Iraqi Mirage fighter jet fired the missiles at the USS Stark--but shouldn't this read more like "a modified Dassault Falcon 50" fired the missiles, or something along those lines (in correct wikipedia syntax of course)

I didn't want to make the edit because I've got no idea how to cite anything, but the USS Stark Incident page cites the following (along with two other relevant citations): https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-modified-iraqi-falcon-50-business-jet-nearly-destroyed-us-frigate-66772

Worth noting I suppose that the Stark initially thought it was a Mirage fighter, perhaps that led to the confusion? 2603:8080:7400:DF2:452:8089:9BB5:7889 (talk) 17:52, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

How the war started, and the addition of Iranian attempting to provoke war.

I have been studying the Iran-Iraq war for a couple of years now, and something the wikipedia page does not cover is how much iran actually provoked Iraq into an attack, also the page includes stuff about how Saddams regime wanted to take kuzhesthan, but this dosent have much sufficent evidence, and alot of sources differ, expescially considering Iraq had accepted a cease-fire on september the 28th, 4 days after the war offically started, which they wouldnt have accepted if they had wanted to taken iranian land,

"Within days, Iraqi forces invaded Iran. At the same time, Iraq bombed Iranian air bases and other strategic targets. In the week following the invasion, the UN Security Council called for a cease-fire and appealed to Iran and Iraq to settle their dispute peacefully. The Iraqi president replied, saying that Iraq would accept a cease-fire provided Iran did as well. Iran’s response, however, was negative. The war thus continued and in succeeding years was extended to the gulf area."[1]Source,

Also before this, Saddam had constanly praised and congraulated Khomeini on his success, with Saddam quoting in one of his speeches, "We congraulate the Iranian people on there freedom.', even after Khomeini announced that the shias must rise up and get rid of the "Infidel" Saddam Hussein, Saddam responded yet again with praise, just wanting to establish mutual ties, instead, Iran constantly had border skirmishes, and launched artillery strikes onto the Iraqi side of the shatt-al arab, and even on populated towns.

The Iran–Iraq War: 1980–1988, Osprey Publishing "It is difficult to pinpoint when tensions began to build, but there were frequent cross-border skirmishes, largely at Iran's instigation. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini called on Iraqis to overthrow the Ba'ath government, which was received with considerable anger in Baghdad. On 17 July 1979, despite Khomeini's call, Saddam gave a speech praising the Iranian Revolution and called for an Iraqi-Iranian friendship based on non-interference in each other's internal affairs. When Khomeini rejected Saddam's overture by calling for Islamic revolution in Iraq, Saddam was alarmed. Iran's new Islamic administration was regarded in Baghdad as an irrational, existential threat to the Ba'ath government, especially because the Ba'ath party, having a secular nature, discriminated and posed a threat to the Shia movement in Iraq, whose clerics were Iran's allies within Iraq and whom Khomeini saw as oppressed."

If anyone wants aswell, i have documented violations by the Iranians on iraqi land pre-war, which are up to a 100 documented cases of Iranian violations of Iraqi soverignity, the war (unoffically) started on september 4th according to the Iraqi's, which wouldnt be far-feched, due to the fact the Iranians were already attacking Iraqi towns with artillery and attempted to assainate Tariz Aziz, which failed, and instead killed several Iraqi Students, which was one of the reasons Iraq decided to cross the border, the war was meant to last only a week, just to warn the Iranians, and attempt to force-khomeini into argeeing to non-aggression, which is why Iraq agreed to UN security councils proposal for peace.

The Myth of Iraq wanting kuzehstan is extremely debunkable, it has been proven countless times, that Iraq did not want to annex any Iranian-land, both Saddam publically declared this, and so did his Ambassdor.

"We have no claim or ambition in any Iranian territory at all, we have just said that defintely." - Sa'dun Hammadi

"So the Iraqi army will withdraw from the east bank of the Shatt-al-arab?" - Interviewer

"Certainly." - Sa'dun Hammadi

I have loads of archived footage, and videos, and documents etc etc if anyone wants more proof, the above interview was filmed, i have the footage of it if anyone wants, i am just seeking approval to make the large-ish edit to the article, to include a more correct version. Local Mandaean (talk) 02:36, 11 August 2024 (UTC)